The Flood

[LostSamurai]

What's the difference? Your scientific proof is a bunch of books and other such sources that are often referred to in the documentaries seen on the Discovery Channel.

[Niilo Paasivirta]

What's the difference? Your scientific proof is a bunch of books and other such sources that are often referred to in the documentaries seen on the Discovery Channel.

Really? List three books and "other such sources" which are referred to in Discovery Channel then. So we can verify your claim.

[Echo]

Hmm. I never did say it was my "proof". The problem with trying to argue something that happened so long ago that there isn't going to be alot of documented evidence. Just our passing theories for  the way the world was and a few  really old books that was written by alot of ancient sexist,racist  men that heard what happened  from the mouth of someone who had a nephew's niece's friend  that was at the actual event.  The Bible I'm afraid is one of them, and qouting that alone for evidence that your faith  is fact will just make someone  seem foolish and without thought.

Because the Discovery channel is dealing with such a time period of it being so far into our past all they really have to work with is passing theory, Biblical refferencing, geological evidence and good old fashion logic.

They discovered the ark, or a really big boat  they believed to be the ark  somewhere in the Himalia's I think, I've got to watch that show again. But if you just think about it, how could he fit an animal one of every male and every female inside a boat for sixty days? The flood could happen, and the boat was big enough it could've accomidated a large population of creatures around the Mesopatamia. And the human race wasn't as expansive as we are now way back then. A flood like that really could've seemed world ending through the eyes of one man, the story passed on it took on mystical elements and ended up in the Bible.

Each story that was in the Bible could have taken on mystical elements after although I'm not completely against the thought that mircles could've happened.  That's what happens when stories get passed on. Again, the Bible is not straight from the horses mouth.

The Discovery Channel Sources?
The Dead Sea Scrolls, experts in the Discovery channel claimed they were actually unchanged alot from the old testament. Refferenced by several of their shows!

 The Qur'an. Incidently, the Muslim book of faith contains alot of the older biblical prophets, and also contains  good views on the Muslim religion. Incidently  most of the Muslim faith preaches  love and peaceful ways. The terrorists extremists that murdered 3000 people ( who were not Iraqi  )  before George W. Bush murdered over 3000 of our soldiers are rabid, religious and full of hate. Your average Muslim would probably in insulted if you included them with *those* folks.

The Good Book AKA the Bible. Usually old Testament because  the older you get the less watered down information it contains.Old school was written before the coming of Christ, new school written after. Incidently  very useful when qouting old old old  extremely outdated laws, such as women being property, and slaves being okay. Gives a good vision of the barbaric times  that our ancestors came from, but doesn't contain any solid proof.

Other usually religious texts... not all nessesarily Christian.

As well as thousands of experts, some of them Catholic priests that went to college, others rabbi's with doctorates, some just really fun loving Christian people with open minds with educations from universities and whatnot.

These are theories. Theories are what facts are until they've been proven but Discovery draws on the top experts in their field.  The experts in their field are generally respected for their theories until they've been disproven or proven,  facts are provided, and more theories are formed  from those facts. You can probably view lots and lots of names if you go to Discovery.com and look around long enough (although I doubt you will.)I don't usually remember the names of experts unless the subject escpially intrests me.

Now take the very interesting show I recently saw on the Shroud of Turen ( Did I spell that correctly?) . Obviously very religious people did  tests to proove  that the Shroud indeed covered the body of Jesus of Nazereth after his crucifixion.
It was prooven that it could've indeed covered the body of Jesus, it also brought to light the fact  that the shroud could've been created during the middle ages, when hundreds of "false" artifacts dotted Europe, in a time when the churches were eager to draw crowds. The science behind it was sort of a crude photography as it turns out.

Another theory was that the image could've been imprinted by  bacteria feeding on the sweat Jesus made while he was dangling on the cross. Really facinating stuff.

Blah, anyway ending my rambly rant and heading back to work soon... tell me, how do you feel about cloning?

[Niilo Paasivirta]

Blah, anyway ending my rambly rant and heading back to work soon... tell me, how do you feel about cloning?

Looked like Discovery Channel proved that the Ark existed. What comes to Shroud of Turin, well, it's idolatry to worship things like that. Stuff that catholics do. Obviously it is a forgery.

You did not mention White hole theory, changes in the speed of light (these have been observed!), rapid rock formation - also proven, for example, 1975 a clock encased in rock was found at Westport, Washington, "plate tectonics" actually being caused by the Flood, the fact that only energy does not create anything, but an intelligence is also required, etc. etc. - NONE of these proof is depending on the Bible, Qur'an, Dead Sea Scrolls nor Shroud of Turin.

Just to mention a few. There's a HUGE amount of proof for Creation.

[Anai]

The Bible I'm afraid is one of them, and qouting that alone for evidence that your faith  is fact will just make someone  seem foolish and without thought.

Ad Hominem.

Edit:

Old school was written before the coming of Christ, new school written after. Incidently  very useful when qouting old old old  extremely outdated laws, such as women being property, and slaves being okay. Gives a good vision of the barbaric times  that our ancestors came from, but doesn't contain any solid proof.

I find these kind of anti-semitic comments extremely disturbing and probably against the law in Europe and other civilized places.

[Echo]

Old school was written before the coming of Christ, new school written after. Incidently  very useful when qouting old old old  extremely outdated laws, such as women being property, and slaves being okay. Gives a good vision of the barbaric times  that our ancestors came from, but doesn't contain any solid proof.

[qoute]
I find these kind of anti-semitic comments extremely disturbing and probably against the law in Europe and other civilized places.
[/quote]

uh... I'm sorry just how is my views on the bible are anti-semitic?Women *were* property back then. And slavery back then did exist. Thankfully both gone gone gone.Seriously ... just how did you turn my words into

"Antisemitism (alternatively spelled anti-semitism or anti-Semitism) is discrimination, hostility or prejudice directed at Jewish[1] persons as a religious, racial, or ethnic group. Instances of antisemitism range from individual hatred to institutionalized, violent persecution..."
-Wikipedia

.... Perhaps that wasn't the wording you meant to use...I'm pretty sure alot people can proove I'm not just saying this to attack your views...  even in America until  the womens suffurage movement women didn't have many rights, and still struggle for equality in today's world. And slavery was *very* common place in the ancient world... and I'm still failing to see  how this is an attack on the Jewish faith or peoples...

And Niilo,

Could you toss me a few links with some of these ? While it more then likely won't sway my opinion of Creationism views I am genuinely interested in reading about all sorts of view points.. -Thanks!

[Niilo Paasivirta]

And Niilo,

Could you toss me a few links with some of these ? While it more then likely won't sway my opinion of Creationism views I am genuinely interested in reading about all sorts of view points.. -Thanks!

This is probably the most extensive collection of science in the net:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/

[Anai]

... and I'm still failing to see  how this is an attack on the Jewish faith or peoples...

Well, you comparing the Jewish law and tradition to barbarism pretty much covers it. That is something Hitler would do.

[Thorne]

Sure, the flood happened. Many cultures have references to a great flood, take for example our own Kalevala, in the beginning the whole world is covered in water. Then there's the Epic of Gilgamesh, there's one in The Quran and in Lao there's the Khun Borom. The list goes on and on. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Of course most other stuff in those legends is just bullsh1t. Noah's Ark? Pfft, yeah right.

[Herran-Ruoska]

Sure, the flood happened. Many cultures have references to a great flood, take for example our own Kalevala, in the beginning the whole world is covered in water. Then there's the Epic of Gilgamesh, there's one in The Quran and in Lao there's the Khun Borom. The list goes on and on. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Of course most other stuff in those legends is just bullsh1t. Noah's Ark? Pfft, yeah right.

Other bebbpoples Flood legends is just legend. Christian beboples Flood is teh real Flood. Other bebople is not Christian bebople. Only Chrstian right is right. Niilolujah!

[Thorne]

What I think the story of Noah's ark is all about is, that in one point of time there was a huge disaster. It's propably happened more then once like, when meteors hit, or some (poo-poo) happens to the polar ice caps, or something huge and it kills like 90% percent of the people. Now the people that are remaining, they have a story, a story of a great disaster where some of the people got away. Over time that person becomes a great hero, a savior and they talk about him around the campfire. And his legend grows. And when you have a story that's been told in oral tradition for over a thousand years before it's ever written in ancient Hebrew and to this day they only know about four or five words of ancient hebrew, and in ancient Hebrew there were no numbers, so words also double as numbers, so you lose all the numeric values that are important to the text like the word ''God'' and the word ''love'', they have the same numeric value and that's very importan for sentencing. Then it was translated to latin, translated to greeck, they lost all of that sh1t. And that's all these stories, stories of people bullsh1ting each other for thousands of years around the campfire to the original text being indecipherable to what they have today, how can ANYBODY think that's real?

You would have to be f*cking crazy to think that really happened. That God talked to one guy, and got all the animals from all over the world and put them in a boat. That makes zero sence, when you know people are liars you know people are weak. You know that even the most religious people can be full of sh1it. And after all that, if you think that that story's real, that's insane.

EDIT-------

01.09.09
Fixed a few typos.