About Atheists

[bengel]

However, most scholars nowadays agree that the 4 canonised gospels were written somewhere between 60 (Mark) and 100 (John) AD. In any case before 180 AD, since Iraneus mentions them as well. He probably chose these 4 because of their narrative character, while the so-called gnostic ones focused more on spiritual teachings. He was also convinced that, since the Earth has 4 winds and corners, the church must have (only) 4 pillars of truth, those 4 gospels. They were later canonised and the other ones forbidden, because of the power struggle that was beginning to emerge between Roman catholicism and the so-called gnostic sects.

Christianity was a many splintered thing in the beginning, many different accounts, interpretations and gospels existed. It is striking that the apocryph "gnostic" ones, who's number is much bigger than the 4 in the bible, all show one central idea, namely that man does not need an institution in order to find God, because God lives as an inner divine spark within every individual. One does not have to be bright to understand why these gospels posed a serious threat to the very existence of the church itself, and why they did their utmost best to unite church teachings in dogma's and persecute those "heretics" and put them to death.   

[Spear of Destiny]

Indeed.


Though just to sate my own curiosity, could you source where you got those dates from, please?

[bengel]

I forgot to say that you were absolutely right concerning Judas in the gospel of Mark 

I got that info, and much much more, from a professor emeritus in philosophy and religious critique of mine, called Hubert Dethier. He has described early christianity in great detail in his trilogy called "De beet van de adder". Those dates etc. can be found in part one "De leerstoelen der deugd". In the low lands, it is considered to be one of the best scholarly investigations of this time (the first volume was published in 1994), using other sources from scholars he knows and a whole lot of foreign books on the subject - Dethier knows many languages and is himself a "walking library". So, in English, this would sound like: "The bite of the viper. Part one: The lessons (or academic chairs) of virtue". The bite of the viper symbolizes the threat that "gnosticism" posed to the early catholic church. Unfortunately, these books have not been translated in English as far as I know.

The documentary about the gospel of Judas said almost exactly the same (allthough I doubt they know these books).

I just did an online search, and this website seems to be decent:

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

They give the following dates:

Mark: 65 - 80
Matthew: 80 - 100
Luke: 80 - 130
John: 90 - 120   

[Spear of Destiny]

Sounds like an interesting book.


I only asked as I saw a documentary recently that gave dates close to that but generally later.  So I was curious.

[bengel]

Nothing wrong with that, on the contrary, curiosity is healthy, as long as it doesn't kill a cat 

[Spear of Destiny]

 


**brushes dead cat under nearby tabel**


Oh, yes... definately 



 

[SwordOfNight]

Can anyone when the term Christian was first used and by whom?

[The_Raven]

I think it's a fairly recent term... Surely, Jesus had many followers during His life and after his death, but according to some of the Gnostic gospels, he was seen as either a prophet or a wise man. It wasn't until the council of Nice that the Christian faith was canonised and formed. But definitely there where 'pockets' of belief in Jesus as a divine being a long time before that.

[The_Cantor]

It doesn't really matter when the word for it was invented, but Christianity has existed since the creation of Adam.

[Piously Aligned]

Yes, and around the times of Jesus those evil Jews, who crucified Him, started their silly spinoff to mock True Christians. They pretend they don't know that Christianity is the oldest religion out there and Mr. Paasivirta's Correct Opinions already existed before the beginning of time.

[bengel]

Then perhaps you could explain to me how it is possible for someone to have a correct opinion before the beginning of time? 

[Niilo Paasivirta]

Then perhaps you could explain to me how it is possible for someone to have a correct opinion before the beginning of time? 

Simple: God existed before time was created, because He created time along with the universe. Thus God had correct opinions before the beginning of time.

[American Girl]

Then perhaps you could explain to me how it is possible for someone to have a correct opinion before the beginning of time? 

Simple: God existed before time was created, because He created time along with the universe. Thus God had correct opinions before the beginning of time.

But who created god? Everything has to be created, so who created god?

[Niilo Paasivirta]

Then perhaps you could explain to me how it is possible for someone to have a correct opinion before the beginning of time? 

Simple: God existed before time was created, because He created time along with the universe. Thus God had correct opinions before the beginning of time.

But who created god? Everything has to be created, so who created god?

You see God as if He was a man or something equally small. Nobody who has actually read the Bible thinks so.

John 4: 24: God is a Spirit...

Matthew 16:17: And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Numbers 23:19: God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

2Pet.3:8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

If you ask “Who or what created God?”, you are making the assumption that God was created. God exists outside of time and space, and since He is the Creator of time and space, He obviously was not created.

By the way, if you want to discuss matters here, you should at least know the very basics, preferably more. This really is not the forum for answering basic questions about Christianity. Are you trying to waste our time?

But the idea that God might want to change his mind is an example of the fallacy, pointed out by St. Augustine, of imagining God as a being existing in time: time is a property only of the universe that God created. Presumably, he knew what he intended when he set it up!

Guess who wrote that? In fact, I want you to find out who wrote that. If you don't do any research yourself, your next basic question will not be answered. The question you asked was one of the very basic ones, you could have researched the answer yourself. It's explained even in the Internet (!!!).

[American Girl]

You say the Earth had to have been created by something, so since the Earth can't just be here then god can't just be here either.